Should we let foreigners in as members?

[griffin]

I want this forum to feel like an exclusive home for local fans here, so I don't think the doors will ever be opened to every fan around the world. Even if it means we remain a small number of members, at least it would be *our* community. That said, I don't think many fans from outside of our part of this world (or even outside of this country) are that interested in participating here anyway, due to there being other fan forums for the global topics and little relevence to our local topics.
I'm wondering if we should allow foreign fans in, and if so, should they only be allowed in if they can bring something of use here (like fans who are sources for news or info). If I did allow this, I'd limit it to only those people who are from some sort of important background and assess each person as to why they should be here. I want to see what other people here think though. But like I said, we don't get much interest from fans outside of our part of the world. They just need to be aware that if they are a regular fan who can't bring something useful to our forum, they need to interact on one that is global or local to them, because that would be more fulfilling to them.

[SofaMan]

I'd prefer to keep the community a local one, with a rider that I think there is some worthiness in allowing certain fans who have something of particular value to bring to the community (like TF:Mosaic, who I assume is not local).

I'd prefer that the character of our community was not diluted by allowing too many non-Australasians to participate.

[Borgeman]

i agree - the only people who should be permitted to join are people such as TF:Mosaic who bring a specific service to the site

George

[dirge]

I would accept _some_ situations - such as Aussies/Kiwis living abroad (not emigrants, those working or studying) and the like.

As for true foreigners, I think they'd need to have a compelling reason and there were need to be some support for that person joining.

[SofaMan]

I would accept _some_ situations - such as Aussies/Kiwis living abroad (not emigrants, those working or studying) and the like.

Actually, I hadn't considered this - I wouldn't have a problem with this either.

[kup]

Yeah, foreigners who provide us with a generous service to the fan community should be allowed such as TF Mosaic and so forth.

Australian residents who are temporary abroad should also be allowed.

New Zeland residents should also be allowed in as I am sure that the NZ fan community is as small as the Australian one and it would be a good idea to support one another.

[griffin]

Just wanted to point out that TF Mosaic is apparently from North QLd or Sydney (or both, I think it is a pair of fans).

[Thanatos]

There are big boards for other countries, this needs to be Australian specific, with exceptions for services like TF Mosaic or people who join here as aussies abroad and then return to their countries.

Maybe we should allow for NZ residents? I mean, I know Australia and New Zealand are not the same country by any stretch of the imagination, but the community might really appreciate some kind of diversity? I dunno.

[SofaMan]

Maybe we should allow for NZ residents? I mean, I know Australia and New Zealand are not the same country by any stretch of the imagination, but the community might really appreciate some kind of diversity? I dunno.

New Zealanders are already included on Ozformers. Zippo is from NZ.

[iceburn]

Where do we used to be overseas students and now permanent residents fall into place?

[dirge]

Where do we used to be overseas students and now permanent residents fall into place?

Simple really - your Transformers fandom is taking place in Australia, so for the purposes of this board, you're as Australian as anyone else. Even if you're studying here temporarily, it would still be the same situation.

And as Sofaman pointed out, this forum has always been open to those in New Zealand. And Norfolk Island, if by some chance we ever have anyone from there who wants to join.

[Borgeman]

so local is good, a local temporarily/short term living overseas is good, and maybe foreigners who are here for one specific purpose ( imagine a yank version of TF:mosaic for eg)

George

[SofaMan]

Where do we used to be overseas students and now permanent residents fall into place?

You're a permanent resident, so you're Australian for membership purposes, I'd think. The place wouldn't be the same without you. :)

I'd say we want to err on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion, so if there's any doubt about eligibility, then we should include a person.

However, if someone falls well outside the established membership guidelines, that would be a fair basis for exclusion from membership.

[griffin]

This board caters for any current resident in the Australian region of the world (which covers the various NZ fans we have had as members, plus some nearby asian countries in the past). It also allows for anyone from this region who is temporarily residing in another part of the world. But since the focus is on local issues, the board would not be considered relevent enough for people who have moved abroad permanently, or are foriegners.
This is why it could be okay to let some foreign fans join if they are intending to be interacting here for our benefit (like as a direct source for news or info).

[GoktimusPrime]

I totally agree that this board should primarily be for Australian-based fans. Many of us are already members of other international TF boards and there are advantages and disadvantages of international and Australian boards - but yeah, I come here primarily to hang out with Aussie-based fans. If I wanted to talk to foreign-based fans, I'd go elsewhere.

Perhaps we should also allow for foreigners who were formerly Australian-based fans such as Tiger Convoy (not sure if he wants to join here but I reckon it'd be nice if he had the option - he'd also be able to directly answer questions about Japanese related TF questions) and if jaydisc ever decides to repatriate back home I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to continue posting here.

PS: we do already have at least one active NZ member here - but also NZ fans tend to congregate at Transformersnewzealand.com which is more relevant for them.

[Saintly]

I'd put my two cents in as well... OTCA should be for "people" who is currently residing here for more than a couple of months, so that counts anyone who is currently working or studying in AU.

There should be some exceptions to the rule for foreigners as others have said (ie. news/info contributions or even a trusted seller??)

[Bartrim]

I used to frequent an international board more then this one. The reason I stopped doing so was it allowed every cat, dog and their mother to join. As such there was continous baiting, spamming, trolling, flamming people being banned. It was just ridiculous.

I prefer our small, local, friendly community:)

Lets keep it that way.

[i_amtrunks]

Im all for keeping this for Aussies at home and abroad. Kiwi's count as Aussies since there are enough of them over here anyways! :D

Perhaps close neighbours with a very very small community of Transformers fans like Papua New Guinea should also be allowed to join?

[TheDirtyDigger]

I don't know the state of fan communities in neighbouring countries but personally I wouldn't be opposed to allowing forum members from places like Malaysia, Singapore, the Phillipines and Indonesia as they can only bring a positive contribution and may be beneficial in providing a source of TF's we may not be able to locate here.

I mean if we let NZ'rs in why not other regional nations?:confused:

I would be opposed though to allowing in people from countries that are hostile to us and considered enemies of Australia.
Like those b**tards from that despicable, despotic nation known as New South Wales.:mad:

[springah]

I don't know the state of fan communities in neighbouring countries but personally I wouldn't be opposed to allowing forum members from places like Malaysia, Singapore, the Phillipines and Indonesia as they can only bring a positive contribution and may be beneficial in providing a source of TF's we may not be able to locate here.

I mean if we let NZ'rs in why not other regional nations?:confused:

I would be opposed though to allowing in people from countries that are hostile to us and considered enemies of Australia.
Like those b**tards from that despicable, despotic nation known as New South Wales.:mad:

QFT! Any reason why it can't be a Oceanic Region site?

[Saintly]

QFT! Any reason why it can't be a Oceanic Region site?

+1!

ps. I need to add at least 10 characters to a reply! that's a new feature of this board!

[NEMESIS PRIME]

I would accept _some_ situations - such as Aussies/Kiwis living abroad (not emigrants, those working or studying) and the like.

As for true foreigners, I think they'd need to have a compelling reason and there were need to be some support for that person joining.

I agree with this.

[dirge]

Okay, he's already been added, but I think Karl is a good example of someone with both a reason and support - he's specifically discussing Australian TF sales, and with all his (and Jon's) efforts putting together BotCon down the years, I don't think anyone would begrudge him!

[Saintly]

so is Karl, a co-organiser of Botcon??

if so, can we get some free tix? :D (doesn't hurt asking)

[dirge]

Karl & his brother Jon basically _are_ BotCon. Back before there was an Australian Transfans community (when I was the only one - online, anyway), they had already organised the first two BotCons!

[jaydisc]

I can't imagine anyone outside of this area wanting to join except to advertise something. Perhaps we need a policy regarding for what reasons this is permissible?

[griffin]

Don't worry Jay. The anti-spam policy I have would make it very difficult for a foreign toy dealer to register here. If any did have an interest, I would probably just get them to email me exactly what they want posted, and I would post it for them. Because I don't want to have people registering here if they only intend to advertise and not interact.

And, how many times do I have to use the phrase 'Australian region of the world' before people get the idea that we've always been open to fans from neighbouring countries? I want fans from 'our part of the world' to have the option of interacting here if they want, and in the past, we have had members, not just from Australia and New Zealand, but also Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong. Countries beyond that would feel more 'local' to the large fan communities in America, Canada, UK and Japan.
I just wanted to see if there was any stubborn hostility to the option of allowing fans in from outside of the 'Australian region of the world' if they were important enough or were a useful source of news/info. Since no one here seems to object to it, I will consider the option if ever the need arises, and process each person thoroughly.
Thankyou guys for the input though.

[roller]

I never thought id see the day

Australia puts the Oz in OzFormers


permanent residents and people staying or living in Australia should only be allowed to join.

perhaps outsiders can contribute as visitiors but NOT members

c'mon isolationist policy

im against the idea of letting New Zealanders in for what i hope are obvious reasons

Admiral Perron out

[TheHandsomeCrab]

I don't see what the problem with foreign members is. If you look at the American sites like TFW2005 and AllSpark, the members are about 70% American, 20% Canadian and 10% misc.

The British sites like Transformers @ The Moon and TheTransformers.Net are at least 80% British with a handful of other Europeans/N. Americans and the odd Australian.

Then the Dutch sites are almost entirely Dutch with the odd Belgian member, etc. etc.

But none of these places suffer for the multiculturalism. Restricting membership to citizens of certain countries borders racism, and is especially pointless when you'd probably get almost no foreign devils joining up anyway.

[Soundwarp]

I say NO.......

*Unless* They can proove to inhance us in some way.

[roller]

who knows what type of viruses these foreighners are carrying

well done internet customs

[Robzy]

I tend to agree with the majority of people in this thread... keep Ozformers local! :)

I also agree with Gok - If I want to read pages and pages of material that may or may not be relevant to me, I can go to any one of the major TF sites!

I come to Ozformers because I can discuss "local" issues, read "relevant" topics, ask questions which get helpful responses and great advice, and even buy stuff of other members (Alternators Rodimus for example) that I wouldn't otherwise be able to!

[griffin]

Since I got one very angry responce from an American who was refused access, I thought that maybe I can post here the details of the person who is not local and why they want to be here, and give a week for people to say yes or no - that way I can show to them that it wasn't my choice if they are refused entry, and I don't have to get the brunt of their abuse.

[springah]

I say thee nay!

Or let them in.. maybe with a flag of where they're from?

[jaydisc]

I can't imagine why a foreigner would want to join rather than hang out at seibertron, tfw2005, etc., but also I can't see how it would hurt us either... again, unless it's an issue of spamming, which I'm pretty sure we're not too into regardless of origin.

[GoktimusPrime]

Or let them in.. maybe with a flag of where they're from?

They already do that on other international forums. OzFormers is meant to be an Australasian forum for Australasian fans, and I don't see any problem with keeping it that way.

There are plenty of other board communities which are regionally exclusive such as for Nordic fans, Dutch fans, Transformers New Zealand, Transformers Hong Kong etc. - most Japanese boards have a policy stating that users can only post in Japanese (posts in other languages are expressly disallowed).

If people want to go on a more international community, then there are plenty of international boards out there for them to join.

[jaydisc]

I'd love to hear why this person wanted to join.

[springah]

They already do that on other international forums. OzFormers is meant to be an Australasian forum for Australasian fans, and I don't see any problem with keeping it that way.

There are plenty of other board communities which are regionally exclusive such as for Nordic fans, Dutch fans, Transformers New Zealand, Transformers Hong Kong etc. - most Japanese boards have a policy stating that users can only post in Japanese (posts in other languages are expressly disallowed).

If people want to go on a more international community, then there are plenty of international boards out there for them to join.

So what happens if i move to the US for a few years? :P
Or i might just like Aussie fans better? I dunno, just seems dumb to say "no foreigners allowed!"

[griffin]

What about if it is allowed, but it is recommended against or discouraged unless they really really want to?
And maybe have a maximum quota as well to make sure we keep the discussion local (like 5 or 10% non-local fans)?

What do you think, a quota system, or a vote on each applicant?

[springah]

Both good ideas, Griff.

I say just get the mods to keep an eye on the new guys..

[Bartrim]

What about a trial period for the applicants? Let them join but for the first 3 months they can be booted if the moderators see fit. Thats how my industry works. You get hired on a 3 month trial during which the management can say at anytime "Nah it's not working" and send you on your way. However once you pass that trial period you can't be fired unless you've had 3 warnings for the same offence.

Ideally I would like to keep this forum local, however I feel kinda bad not letting someone who has something worthy to contribute join based solely on the fact they are from overseas. Plus I feel the trial period is a good way to get rid of spammers or inactive users.

Just a thought...thats all. Now back to work before my boss catches me:D

[GoktimusPrime]

I think there needs to be a compelling reason, and that reason should be relevant to the Australasian preamble/theme of this board.

For example, if you're an Australian living overseas, or a non-Australian living in Australia, or if you formerly lived in Australia etc. In other words, you need to have some relevance to Australia/Australasia.


What about a trial period for the applicants? Let them join but for the first 3 months they can be booted if the moderators see fit. Thats how my industry works. You get hired on a 3 month trial during which the management can say at anytime "Nah it's not working" and send you on your way. However once you pass that trial period you can't be fired unless you've had 3 warnings for the same offence.
Yes, but at the same time employees also look for certain attributes amongst applicants when they're being screened before they even get into the probationary trial stage period - usually you need appropriate qualifications.

I say that "Australasian relevance" would be a required "qualification" for people applying to be members here.

For example, many of us would remember Tiger Convoy, a Japanese Transformer fan whom I met on a Japanese TF board (on Japanese boards he's known as 怪軍三等兵) who later decided to come live in Sydney for a year on a working holiday Visa. During that time he became an active member of the Australian Transformers (and animé/manga) fandom. He befriended several fans, attended numerous fan meets in Sydney and Melbourne, and also assisted with the OzFormers convention project. And although he's not a registered member of the OzFormers forum, he still privately liases with OzFormer members whom he met during his stay here. excelonzero visited him during his trip to Japan - so he still actively interacts with Australian fans.

I would support Tiger Convoy's registration on this board if he ever decided to do so because although he's not Australian, he has had a history of interaction with Australian fandom and continues to privately interact with Australian fans. In other words, he can demonstrate "Australasian relevance."

If people outside Australasia want to join, I say that they should present some case demonstrating Australasian relevance. If a person's case appears ambiguous, then confer with us (members/community) and we can collectively decide then - I imagine that in most cases it would be reasonably clear cut though.

Tiger Convoy at a Sydney fan meet (front row left)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Transfan%20Meets/sydmeet.jpg

Tiger Convoy at a Melbourne fan meet (back row centre)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Transfan%20Meets/melbmeet.jpg

Cover art for the OzFormers 2003 convention exclusive comic, as drawn by Tiger Convoy
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/ondevilsgroundcover.jpg

[jaydisc]

I don't see why the burden of impressiveness should lie with them. If they get outta line, like anyone from anywhere, boot 'em.

Can you explain what negative aspects you think we/anyone might incur if they do join?

[Paulbot]

Well in Australia we buy toys from K-mart, Target, Big W and Toys R Us.

In America they buy toys from K-mart, Target, Wal-Mart and Toys R Us.

Wait, that's not very confusing at all... Um. Well American's do get to buy new Deluxes for $10. Boo! :)

And um, they are seldom going to come to our meetups?

[STL]

I disagree with this whole region snob thing. I think if you're joining here it's due in large part to it being local. It's not like we're going to get an influx of international fans signing up.

I have only two primary concerns about those joining:
1.) They aren't international-fan sellers using this as a way to get access to fandom
2.) We don't degenerate into posting like some of those American boards where foul mouths seem to fire off wherever they like.

Personally, I joined up here only partly b/c it was Australian. The primary reason was b/c it seemed like a nice community. I'd known about Ozformers for a while but hadn't bothered joining here or any other forum b/c I didn't care for joining a forum where there were snide and arrogant characters.

That's how I'd like to see it continue. I don't think a control mechanism on foreigners is necessary as it's not like we're going to bombarded. And if we are, okay but just as long as it's just to be part of the community.

[Paulbot]

I can't even spell xenofobia

:)

[Zippo]

im against the idea of letting New Zealanders in for what i hope are obvious reasons



I'm very displeased with your statement.
As the only non Australian currently active on the forums, I know thats its quite hard for me to partake in some discussions -- ie, most but I still like to come in and read whats being found and then partake when I can.

Gok is right, us NZ'ers mostly hang out at TFNZ but we can't always just hang out there as its not always 'pumping'.


I think I know the American who wanted to join ..

[dirge]

If people want to go on a more international community, then there are plenty of international boards out there for them to join.

As Gok said, there are international board. The reason for this boards existance is an Australian focus.

If someone from (say) Canada has a specific reason for joining a forum with an Australian focus, ie they're looking to migrate, they're an expat or they lived here for a while and have a lot of friends within the Australian fandom, that's different to someone who just wants to join our board.

The person who is joining specifically because of the Australian focus has a case - because their inclusion wont dilute the local content.

I don't think we should say "lets allow 5%". What if that 5% are vocal troublemakers banned from international boards?

As for a vote, I'm happy to leave griffin to make the call. I don't know that calling public vote and having someone publicly voted against is the way to go :eek:

[GoktimusPrime]

It's not necessarily a matter of prejudice, but the fact that it is a different experience interacting with collectors from other regions because they do have a different outlook/perspective from Australasian fans and as a result interaction with non-Australasian fans is often an entirely different experience.

A person with some degree of "Australasian relevance" would be able to interact on this board that is currently exclusively populated by Australasian users.

Notice that I said "Australasian relevance" rather than just "Australasian." By "Australasian relevance," I mean that a person would need to demonstrate a good reason for why they would want to interact in an online Australasian community - demonstrate that they have some form of appreciation and understanding of Australasian Transfandom or willingness to develop an appreciation/understand of it. I mean, why else should you be allowed to join an online TF community, that has specifically outlined itself as being Australasian, if you didn't have or were willing to develop an appreciation/understanding of our regional fandom??

For example, I've participated in Japanese TF forums, even though I no longer live in Japan, I have an appreciation and understanding for Japanese Transfandom. I like to think that I have some appreciation and understanding for NZ Transfandom - and I've participated in TFNZ (http://www.transformersnewzealand.com[/url) too. On the other hand, I have no real appreciation or understanding for Nordic Transfandom (apart from general understanding of overall European Transfandom) - so I would completely understand if I were disallowed from interacting on a Nordic Transformers forum such as the Nordic Transfans Association (NTFA) (http://www.ntfa.net/ntfa/index.php).

And as I've said before, there are plenty of other Transformer fan boards out there which are exclusive in some manner (e.g.: region, language etc). Why can't we also have an Australasian-exclusive forum? How would it make us any more or less "xenophobic" compared to other regional or language exclusive boards?

Transformers New Zealand
http://www.transformersnewzealand.com/images/logo.jpg

TFClub (China)
http://www.tfclub.com/banner.jpg

Hong Kong TF
http://hk-tf.com/images/hktf-logo.gif

Secret Deep Space (Japan)
http://home3.highway.ne.jp/nenriki/IMG00002.GIF

[Soundwarp]

They already do that on other international forums. OzFormers is meant to be an Australasian forum for Australasian fans, and I don't see any problem with keeping it that way.

There are plenty of other board communities which are regionally exclusive such as for Nordic fans, Dutch fans, Transformers New Zealand, Transformers Hong Kong etc. - most Japanese boards have a policy stating that users can only post in Japanese (posts in other languages are expressly disallowed).

If people want to go on a more international community, then there are plenty of international boards out there for them to join.

Ok people i hope your sitting down, I 100% agree with Gok!


What about if it is allowed, but it is recommended against or discouraged unless they really really want to?
And maybe have a maximum quota as well to make sure we keep the discussion local (like 5 or 10% non-local fans)?

What do you think, a quota system, or a vote on each applicant?

Mate i have to say no thanks, if i want to speak with foreigners then i'll post at another site.


As Gok said, there are international board. The reason for this boards existance is an Australian focus.

If someone from (say) Canada has a specific reason for joining a forum with an Australian focus, ie they're looking to migrate, they're an expat or they lived here for a while and have a lot of friends within the Australian fandom, that's different to someone who just wants to join our board.

The person who is joining specifically because of the Australian focus has a case - because their inclusion wont dilute the local content.

I don't think we should say "lets allow 5%". What if that 5% are vocal troublemakers banned from international boards?

As for a vote, I'm happy to leave griffin to make the call. I don't know that calling public vote and having someone publicly voted against is the way to go :eek:


Simply put if it opens up to the world then it will not have the appeal that it has for ME now.

[GoktimusPrime]

:D :D +1.

There are plenty of international boards out there already, if someone wants to interact with foreign nationals, then go ahead and join an international board. I regularly participate on non-Australian and international boards too - but what attracts me here is the Australian focus.

afaik OzFormers and TAAU are the only boards which are Australia-centric. If we opened ourselves up to becoming an international board, then what would we offer to Transfans that other boards don't? We would essentially be in direct "competition" with the plethora of other international boards out there. Both OzFormers and TAAU are relatively far more civilised places to frequent because they are smaller tight-knit communities that are easier to moderate, and generally better moderated than most international boards. Just look at the amount of anti-social behaviour that's on international boards - it's rife! We've only had a small handful of members who have ever needed to be banned - for every one member who's ever been banned here there would be easily ten times more on international boards!

And all too often admins and mods on these international boards just become slack or give up on moderating members effectively because they feel overwhelmed by the sheer volume of board rule violations and anti-social, hostile and aggressive behaviour which occur on a regular basis.

And I'd like to reinforce what dirge said too, the inclusion of more foreigners would dilute the Australian-focused content of this board. Imposing some kind of "Australasian-relevance" expectation would help to prevent such dilution.

[dirge]

It's not _foreigners_ that bothers me - it's the loss of an Australian focus.

Well, that and the fact that we'd probably get a few troublemakers who have been banned from several international boards registering.

[G1Optimal]

I do agree that it should be localized and at the same time, i feel it might be beneficial to have non-localized fans
so IMO, here is one possible option....:confused:

another forum just for this task of catering for the entire Australasia region "This region has so many names?"
"with co-operation with the other forums" and leave this and the other forums the way they are now...
Note: you do not have to participate in this forum if you don't want to..:rolleyes:

But what do i know ......:o
"this is probably why, AUS, and probably NZL if not others, doesn't get noticed by Hasbro":rolleyes:

[GoktimusPrime]

It's not _foreigners_ that bothers me - it's the loss of an Australian focus.
hence why I said "Australasian relevance" - foreigners are more than welcome to participate here if they have some appreciation/understanding for Australian Transfandom.


"this is probably why, AUS, and probably NZL if not others, doesn't get noticed by Hasbro"
*cough.cough* erm... yeah, it's more than that, but that's not something I'm going to discuss on a public forum. :p

[G1Optimal]

hence why I said "Australasian relevance" - foreigners are more than welcome to participate here if they have some appreciation/understanding for Australian Transfandom.


*cough.cough* erm... yeah, it's more than that, but that's not something I'm going to discuss on a public forum. :p

:D

[Saintly]

just a thought... if we do let foreigners in, we could potentially be opening the flood gates (ie. no admin to moderate in the weeee hours of the morning).

so I say we keep it local or australasian relevance to keep us unique and "not just another TF board"

[GoktimusPrime]

If non-Australasian fans want to join, they could simply be asked "Why do you wish to join a predominantly Australian Transformers community?" - and their application can be judged on an individual basis based on their answer.

[autobreadticon]

i simply say no, the reason is this forum although for aussies, kinda only useful to aussies, and i do not really want to bring in foreign opinions of t/f , theres already worldwide forums for that.
Only important persons please

[griffin]

If non-Australasian fans want to join, they could simply be asked "Why do you wish to join a predominantly Australian Transformers community?" - and their application can be judged on an individual basis based on their answer.

This was the reply I got from the recent applicant:



I should have just said YES that I live in Australia or New Zealand
then. I do in fact though help several fans from New Zealand and 1 or
two from australia import items from the US many times throughout the
year. :(



I don't think he is a toy dealer though, so could be beneficial to AUS fans who need a non-scalper source for toy *trading* (we may not have much stuff here, but occasionally, like Alt Rodimus, we get some stuff they might want) A small number of Americans who are real fans and not toy dealers, would be a good source to offload those toys to, and maybe even be a reliable source for stuff we don't get here, closer to US retail than a toy dealer. Also, it would be good to get some foriegn perspective on issues, instead of just guessing with how fans overseas are seeing things.
What about we have a trial to see if any of the opinions posted happen? I would have to agree with those who think that it would be unlikely that we would be flooded with interest from non-local fans, so allowing in fans who have a reason to want to interact here, and have a stricter adherence to the rules, shouldn't see any change to the local feel to this place.
- The registration page would continue to say that this board is just for fans in the Australasian region of the world.
- Applicants outside of this region who still register would be asked if they are aware of the regional focus of this board, and why they would want to interact here, because unused registrations can be deleted if inactive over a period of time.
- The Applicant mustn't be a toy dealer, who aims to be merely trying to bring in customers to their store.
- Less leniency with the rules and behaviour.
- No foreign topics or discussion that do not relate to us, or wasn't started by a local fan.
- Removal of Applicant if they are inactive for more than a month (if there is little interest in interacting here on *our* issues, then this community wasn't what they wanted anyway).
- If by chance a noticeable number of foreigners start joining up because one has told the others about getting in, I would go back to denying access, and the trial would be over.

If this one applicant (if they still want to join) becomes an asset to our community, and the focus here remains Australasian, making these types of contacts will be useful, especially if anyone goes overseas (like with the example of Taiga, who was actually here, but the links were made that remain today).

I'll probably go with the limited access/exposure trial, because I am one who is most likely to run into these people while in America, and it is always good to have contacts beforehand in places you are going to, plus it also proves we are a friendly bunch by not being overly xenophobic. A small number gives us openness to the global fandom, while still protecting our own 'cultural' identity us fans in Australia and New Zealand have built up over these past 11 years. The restriction on numbers is the compromise to those of us who feel that the appeal here has been because it has an Australasian focus.
Hopefully it is a compromise that people can be okay with.

[Soundwarp]

But dude, if i want a yanks opinion i'll post at TFW.......
Just IMO i don't like it but you are the man.

Oh and i don't count NZ as foreign, if they can get the doll here then they need t oaccept that they are the 8th state :P

[springah]

Lame. Saintly's point about mods at night is the only real reason not to let this dude join.

As Griff said, contacts overseas is a good thing.

[Paulbot]

Griffin, I think your compromise is fine and a trial would be useful.

There no need to be too concerned about what happens in the early hours as I log in early during the day, and there's nothing to stop any local member run(ning )amuck overnight and we'd deal with them all the same.

[GoktimusPrime]

griffin: you could ask him/her "As a non-Australian, why do you wish to participate in a board that is predominantly populated by Australian fans with a focus on Australian Transfandom?" - in other words, s/he should provide you with a valid reason for wanting to participate here, from the sounds of it it could be because s/he's had previous trade relationships with Australian and New Zealand fans and would like to establish further trade contacts/relationships with fans in this region - just prompt him/her to clarify his/her reason for wanting to participate here as a non-Australian.

Also, what about the "Location" thing for members? Maybe we should include an "overseas" option for those who are outside Australia.

[roller]

We are a local shop for local people, we'll have no trouble here!

[kup]

I agree that the forum should be only for fans living in Australian/NZ or with some relevance like Gok mentioned.

Even if just a few Americans join, it will radically change the ambience of the forum and make moderating much more difficult. Many American fans are very hostile and abusive to other members, you only have to read the US forums a little bit to find that. Yes they are acustomed to it and sites like TFW2005 do a good job of keeping it down but it is still very visible.

I don't want the above to happen here.


Since I got one very angry responce from an American who was refused access, I thought that maybe I can post here the details of the person who is not local and why they want to be here, and give a week for people to say yes or no - that way I can show to them that it wasn't my choice if they are refused entry, and I don't have to get the brunt of their abuse.

If that's how he responded then to me he seems as someone who we would not have wanted in the forum to begin with despite where he is from. Someone who replies in that form was destined to cause problems and tensions between members with bad behavior and attitude, hurting the ambiance of the forum.


I'm very displeased with your statement.
As the only non Australian currently active on the forums, I know thats its quite hard for me to partake in some discussions -- ie, most but I still like to come in and read whats being found and then partake when I can.


I think that Roller's comment was just a bad attempt at humor. He wasn't serious.

[jaydisc]

But dude, if i want a yanks opinion i'll post at TFW.......

Sorry buddy, but you're gonna get yank opinions here anyway :D


Many American fans are very hostile and abusive to other members, you only have to read the US forums a little bit to find that.

What a short-sighted generalization. I think what you're talking about is the result of the economics of scale, not the logistics of nationality.

[TheDirtyDigger]

I like pie!:)

[TheDirtyDigger]

Me...I'm racist. I hate the whole goddam Human Race.

Filthy humans.....:mad:



http://www.yarattik.com/rufio/wp-content/uploads/magneto_was_right2.jpg

[Paulbot]

Please don't make this personal, the question asked in this thread is general, and while some people may have explicit or implicit prejudices, this isn't the place to argue about them.

Well except Dirtydigger who just hates everyone :)

[TheDirtyDigger]

Well except Dirtydigger who just hates everyone

Hey I resent that. :(
I don't mind mutants, cyborgs, androids, aliens and Aaron Archer.:)

It's just the humans that I want to wipe from the face of this planet like a cleansing flame to a bacterial infestation of putrid vermin and rotting disease.

[griffin]

Okay, before this degenerates into a racial bitchfest, keep in mind that many of us here are of different racial backgrounds or were born in other countries, so if you generalise, you are bound to include someone here.
And generalising isn't very accurate either, especially when we know from our own experiance how the vocal minority give a bad reputation to an entire community and its quiet minority.
I know a number of American transfans, who are the best people you could ever meet, so it's not fair to label them all as bad. And I wouldn't just let anyone in, I would be processing them first (with the board staff) to make sure it is beneficial for us and them to be here. Plus if there is any unprovoked disruptiveness, they will be removed.
Sure I could just do whatever I want and let in anyone I want here, but if I did that all the time without some sort of consultation first, you guys wouldn't feel like you were really part of this community and be less interested in being here.
I wouldn't be wanting to see more than a few non-locals here anyway, so don't be too worried about there being a domination of this board. You probably won't even notice them much at all.

[GoktimusPrime]

It's got nothing to do with nationality or ethnicity etc, IMO it's about whether they're capable of interacting on an Australian Transformers community without becoming a dilutant.

Hence the importance of asking non-Australians the question of why they want to join our board, and then assessing whether or not they should be allowed to join based on their answer.

If foreigners are to join this board, it should be because they are genuinely interested in interacting with Australian Transfandom - why else would a non-Aussie want to join OzFormers?? And it would also help to deter foreigners who want to join here because they've been banned from other foreign or international boards.

[kup]

I apologize if my previous posts offended anyone here. I did not think that it would be interpreted as discrimination against all US residents but it appears that it has. My posts were meant to be within the context of maintaining the Board's good ambiance by preventing the possibility of bad online behavior by an increase of abroad users as it almost always happens in International forums.

'Real life' discrimination of American people or culture was never intended.

[jaydisc]

why else would a non-Aussie want to join OzFormers??

Based on the seeming lack of a valid answer to this question, I don't understand why this is an issue or even a discussion for that matter.

Does anyone really think a foreigner is going to come here and post Movie Toy Sighting from New York?

Does anyone really think they are going to organize a meet in Pawtucket, Rhode Island?

Does anyone really think we are going to be bombarded with pics of custom George W. Primes?

It seems to me that the ONLY negative contributions that a foreigner could make (e.g. being hostile and abusive, spamming, etc.) are things that aren't permitted from ANYONE on the board, including those-with-Australia-interests, so why is this an issue?

What specific negative contributions are so feared that we have to stop these folk at the gate?!?!?

[autobreadticon]

i agree, the only real contribution is that most foreign memebers will provide an non-aus opinion on this forum. And frankely this isnt why i joined this forum. i am wary of this because global fans 'might' outweigh the local members.

[Soundwarp]

Lame. Saintly's point about mods at night is the only real reason not to let this dude join.

As Griff said, contacts overseas is a good thing.

There are plenty of non Aussie forums for that


We are a local shop for local people, we'll have no trouble here!

+1


Okay, before this degenerates into a racial bitchfest, keep in mind that many of us here are of different racial backgrounds or were born in other countries, so if you generalise, you are bound to include someone here.
And generalising isn't very accurate either, especially when we know from our own experiance how the vocal minority give a bad reputation to an entire community and its quiet minority.
I know a number of American transfans, who are the best people you could ever meet, so it's not fair to label them all as bad. And I wouldn't just let anyone in, I would be processing them first (with the board staff) to make sure it is beneficial for us and them to be here. Plus if there is any unprovoked disruptiveness, they will be removed.
Sure I could just do whatever I want and let in anyone I want here, but if I did that all the time without some sort of consultation first, you guys wouldn't feel like you were really part of this community and be less interested in being here.
I wouldn't be wanting to see more than a few non-locals here anyway, so don't be too worried about there being a domination of this board. You probably won't even notice them much at all.

But we're not an Australian forum anymore then, we arean international one.

I really really don't like where this is headed.

[Kyle]

Just a suggestion:

Let the person know the purpose of this board and what behaviour or contribution is expected from him/her. If the person's ok with it then give him/her a go. If the person's not happy with it then he/she shouldn't be here. If there's any incident and the person receives more than 3 complaints on the same incident then remove him/her.

[GoktimusPrime]

What sets this board (and TAAU) apart from all other TF boards is that it's Australian. As others have said, there are PLENTY of non-Australian boards that people can join if they don't like it.

If we become an international board, then we really just become "just another international TF board," and I suspect that we would get a lot of dregs rejected from other larger international boards like The AllSpark, TFormers/TFans, BWTF boards et al.


What specific negative contributions are so feared that we have to stop these folk at the gate?!?!?
I for one didn't use the word "negative" but the word "dilute." This board does have a very strong Australian focus and theme and a non-Australasian with little to no functional interaction with Australian Transfandom would dilute this atmosphere.

And as you yourself have conceded, opening this board up to becoming a much larger community would lend itself to attracting more trouble makers due to the economy of scale. Keeping it as an Australasian-exclusive themed board keeps that in tabs due to the miniscule population of Australia (our entire population is equivalent to like the number of passengers on a train in Delhi :p).

[dirge]

What specific negative contributions are so feared that we have to stop these folk at the gate?!?!?

+ Dilution of local content. It's hard to talk about hunting for TFs in Australia if you've never been here. You'll notice that quite a few of us are happy for fans with an Australian connection to join.

+ Users banned from other boards - let's assume for good reason - joining here because they have burnt their bridges elsewhere. If they're not willing to play nicely on previous boards, why would we want them here? I would expect serial troublemakers to be one of the most likely groups to _want_ to register here without any local connection

+ This is a privately funded board, specifically with Australasia in mind. _I_ respect that and would hope that international fans would do the same. That's not to say we exclude _everyone_, but those who do join would do with a reason - such as Karl's interest in Australian bundle packs.

[jaydisc]

OK, I think I get it now.

I assume that many of the proponents of this International ban fear that there are droves of people just waiting for it to disappear to come pollute our content.

http://lindalane.com/temporary/tf/intlformers.jpg

I certainly wouldn't like our intimate village to be adversely hit by the economics of scale. I think we're all in agreeance about that.

I just don't think there are many internationals that even care about us, and why offend the few that do.

[Soundwarp]

OK let me introduce my new comitee in my new sig update...........

[Borgeman]

ill throw in my two cents:

blow up the rest of the world - then this question becomes redundant

easy as :P

George

[GoktimusPrime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdpzoRDbq-w (^_^)

[Borgeman]

comedy gold :D

George

[griffin]

This topic is closed while the poll is active:
http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=485